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Overview
Most agency founders think that being a CEO is the bottom line. Jason Swenk says it’s actually one of the traps. In this episode, John Jantsch sits down with Jason Swenk, founder of Agency Mastery and author of Operator to Owner, to go over the five stages every agency founder must climb and why many get stuck for a long time before reaching the top.
Jason built and sold his own digital agency after working with brands like AT&T, Hitachi, and LegalZoom. He now works with seven- and eight-figure agency founders who are doing too much, holding on too long, and wondering why the business can’t run without them. The discussion covers the identity changes required at each stage, why founders are often the worst managers, and what it actually looks like when you finally get out of your own way.
This one is for agency owners and consultants who know that the business depends heavily on them and are ready to do something about it.
About Jason Swenk
Jason Swenk is the founder of Agency Mastery and host of the Smart Agency Masterclass Podcast. He built his own digital agency from scratch, working with clients including AT&T, Hitachi, and LegalZoom, before selling it. Now he advises founders of seven and eight agencies on building businesses that run independently of them. His book, Operator to Owner, outlines the five stages every agency founder must navigate in order to build a real business. Get the book and free diagnostics at operator2ownerrevolution.com.
Key Takeaways
- Being a CEO is not the finish line. Many founders mistake the operator or manager stage for success and never move on to true ownership.
- The agency you own is a decision you keep making. He started a business to escape the nine to five and accidentally created 24 by seven. Opting out requires deliberate identity change, not just better systems.
- Founders are often bad managers. Hiring people without plans, clarity, or defined results is why you end up doing their job over you.
- The bottleneck is almost always the founder. Until you build decision-making layers that allow your team to work without coming to you, you are a ceiling on your growth.
- You’ve held on to sales for far too long. Almost every agency founder does. And competing with your sales team for leads is not a strategy.
- Don’t hire a vendor before you have a system. Giving a human an assignment without context, stories, or process is like informing an AI without instructions.
- You don’t have to reach owner level. Architect is an official site. Know what stage you want to reach and deliberately build towards it.
- Choosing a niche takes time and that’s okay. Treat it like a Vegas buffet. Try things, notice what works, and ask yourself who you will serve by just working.
- AI adds work before it takes it away. If you don’t build decision systems and layers first, the AI will increase your bottleneck, not remove it.
Time stamps
[00:01] The opening hook: being the CEO of your agency can be a trap that you’ve made the mistake of reaching for.
[00:40] When Jason’s wife told him to close the agency and get a job, and two questions from a NASCAR interview that changed everything.
[02:25] Five categories: operator, manager, builder, CEO, and owner, and why most founders stop at the first two.
[04:24] The rubber band effect: why founders destroy their own teams to feel important again.
[06:20] What the agency needs from you at each stage changes. Most founders never update their job description.
[08:29] Why hiring a salesperson doesn’t work until you have plans and stories behind you.
[11:34] Throwing your team in the deep end without floating, and why fender benders are acceptable but train wrecks are not.
[13:34] The E-Myth reference and why many agency owners start a business to be free and end up less free than ever.
[14:08] The niche question: why force a niche back early and how to get it right in the long run.
[16:11] What a true owner’s church looks like from day to day.
[17:52] One thing Jason held on to for a long time and what finally changed when he let it go.
[19:46] Owners of a single moving agency can do it in the next 30 days based on what stage they are in right now.
Memorable Quotes
“We start an agency to leave 9 to five and end up starting 24 with 7. It doesn’t make sense.”
“It’s not about who you need to hire. It’s about who you need to be.”
“If you don’t change, you don’t do anything. Especially now, more than ever.”
“I stuck with sales for too long. I was even competing with my sales team, which is totally unfair.”
“If you had to be paid only for performance, who would you do for them and what would you not do for them? That’s how you find your place.”
Get the book and take a free stage test at operator2ownerrevolution.com.
